Bad bad ABA...

for threads that need to be deleted from the advocacy area in the future (time to be advised)
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Nell
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Post by Nell » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:47 am

ella I think that is a really interesting point about the teaching methods - maybe you could start a new post somewhere- givin intersted people hints on how to effectively "teach" breastfeeding support and promotion
My little boy was born 21 March, 2005

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:55 am

Nell, you posted while I was writing - I think that is a strategy I could use! Come up with a few standard responses to enable me to respond to the message and actually continue talking on a thread, without seeming to ignore them, which drives them ever louder - though even if you do reply they'll still pick you over, pick at what you said, or didn't say... seems Jenny's the only one with the clout to stop threads in their tracks though! Thanks Jenny!

And the next one too! Yikes where that would go - so prescriptive no-one should do any bf advocacy until everyone is breastfeeding I'd imagine!

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ella
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Post by ella » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:19 am

I did start a thread...i thought it might give her a heads up that I'll be watching out for negative language!!

How can we I suuggest changes to the language of her suggestions without antagonising her? (during future discussions?)

She's usually tring to protect ff parents from being upset or us coming across to pushy, so maybe something like:

"Good point isas, but I'm sure ella will respond in a gentle way...using the ABA softly softly approach"

...supports her suggestion & gives the Bf advocate a confidence boost?

What do you think?

Charndra, I'd love to help!
R 28/9/06 A 29/12/09

"The time in your arms, at your breast and in your bed is such a relatively short time, but your message of love and availability will last a lifetime"
Dr William Sears

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:53 am

I don't know - I think it is too soon and you'll be smothered. She'll see it as an attack.

I know the forum isn't about being the personality police (isn't that a great term?) and all this shouldn't need to be happening - but it just won't ever seem to end - it goes on and on whether we ignore threads (as I have done for months, getting frustrated at seeing friend attacked in subtle cruel ways) or get involved (tried that the other day resulting in feeling as dreadful as I did last time all this happened - when I wasn't writing in threads!)

The only answer for me is to not go out there, stay in here, start and visit in positive threads only!!!

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jennylee
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Post by jennylee » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:40 pm

Just popped in while eating lunch to see what was happened since I posted. I can't believe that no one has posted after me yet :shock: I don't really think I have stopped it - though I hope I have. perhaps it is just the calm before the storm... and a big blast is coming my way soon.

Oh well, I am out tonight - Countdown!! hope it all stays on track till I get back.

I know alot of what is being said is frustrating and hurtful a times. I certainly have felt that way, and still do when I let myself. But I know you are all good people - 'try not to let the turkeys get you down as it were' :wink: I have said in the past, people will read the forum and read all posts, everyone will be seen for who they are. Some people will see your styles and like you, some won't. Some will be swayed to a more gently style of parenting cause of what you all write - and like me, ABA and people like you will give some people confidence to be able to parent the way they want.. so you will have done very well if you help only one mum out there get the confidence she needs to parent the way she wants, not the way others tell her too. And of course some people will not agree with you - they never will, so no point worrying about them. We do what we do, take us or leave us. We know we have helped many many people, we will never reach everyone though. And that is fine. Our aim is to provide info and let people make up their own minds about things. But we have to provide the info so informed choices can be made. ABA is often a soft target, we live with that knowing we are helping alot of mums!! I am certainly a better parent due to ABA - even now with older kids I have the confidence to parent them they way I feel i right, not by what others tell me I should be doing. I know I have ABA to thank for that confidence.

I am rambling - hope it makes sense.

Just jump into the arguments if you feel in the mood, else best to just ignore them ;)

Have a great day all! :D

Jenny
Australian Breastfeeding Association
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Jenny, you are like a clearing breeze on a humid day.

Thankyou for your wisdom.

Charndra

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ella
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Post by ella » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:05 pm

I know I have ABA to thank for that confidence.
Me too! :smt049
R 28/9/06 A 29/12/09

"The time in your arms, at your breast and in your bed is such a relatively short time, but your message of love and availability will last a lifetime"
Dr William Sears

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Post by Saffsmum » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:57 pm

Isas, I was offended by your comments referring to the need for "real professionals with real breastfeeding knowledge". Are you aware of the training and resources used by Australian Breastfeeding Association counsellors? Much more comprehensive than most health professionals you will find. I am glad you have cleared that up, although this was unneccissary
Honestly, if you expect to be treated with some respect and civility, can you please extend the same privilege to me?
Perhaps you can be clearer next time. Just my opinion, of course :lol:

So you think there would be more breastfeeding counsellors if we were paid? :smt082 Surely you jest! If you were involved in the ABA, you would have a bit of an idea of the time and effort involved in achieving the level of support we currently offer. No way would any Government fund this level, let alone more counsellors!!! :lol:

Belittling the role of volunteers and assuming we do it because we are ladies of lesiure is immature and ignorant, and not up to your usual standard of understanding.

You have terrific ideas. Since you are so passionate you must already support our Association, so how about signing up to the Code of Ethics and having a real say rather than harrassing those who are doing what they can with their own resources.

Dare me to post this? :twisted: I'm not nearly as wise as Jenny :lol:

Lizzy, I am so sorry she attacked you. :smt056 I just don't have the emotional fortitude atm to wade in myself. Feel free to use any of my thoughts!

S :D

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ella
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Post by ella » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:03 pm

Dare me to post this
No....but I dare you to make up an alter ego & post it!! :-D funny!

I laughed on my thread today, when she liked the second "negative" sentence...it's one of hers! :roll: Of course she would like it..it's NEGATIVE!!!
R 28/9/06 A 29/12/09

"The time in your arms, at your breast and in your bed is such a relatively short time, but your message of love and availability will last a lifetime"
Dr William Sears

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eilis
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Post by eilis » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:06 pm

Love it!!!! unfortunately I have my chicken suit on now!
I was fed up and ended up PMing isas telling her that Id had enough of fighting and defending BF on a BF website :?

I actually got an apology :shock: :shock: :shock:

Maybe one day she will actually see what goes on and that our passion is what keeps the ABA going, not a bunch of fanatic, crazy, lunatic women :roll:
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance” Socrates
Mama to 4

Saffsmum
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Post by Saffsmum » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:22 pm

=D> You guys are doing such a great job. Ella I'm too lazy to organise an alter ego, but it would be fun! :twisted:

Lizzy I am glad (and amazed) you recieved an apology. Want to share it with us?

:D S

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phoenix
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Post by phoenix » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:29 pm

Oh Saffsmum I dare you to post it. Actually I think the general idea of your reply is fantastic but for her it might need to be less sarcastic :-D
She really is a piece of work.
Sorry guys that I haven't been in the debate. I am trying to get my group bulletin together and I really really want to get my PINKS done. I keep getting a little bit done then I lose my focus and can't be bothered. If Isas really knew what it took to become a counsellor and that we do it knowing we won't ever get paid she wouldn't make comments about us not being good enough. Heck I know for a fact that I (even though not fully trained) have more BF knowledge then 3/4 of the HPs in my town (the other 1.4 include the CHN who is an LC and the female Dr who didn't blink an eye when she saw me with mastitis a few weeks ago-DS2 being over 2yrs)
Lizzy amazed you recieved an apology- maybe she is trying to get you to drop your defences :wink: be afwaid be vewy afwaid :-D (spelling deliberate :wink: )
right going to do assignment-honestly
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David:- 8 (breastfed 23mths)
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Nell
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Post by Nell » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:00 pm

Jenny - Alice and I were talking about how, often people don't reply when they think someone made an exeptional point and there is nothing to disagree with! Lots of people's points in that thread got kind of "ignored" because they were great comments and when there is so much crap comments people tend to focus their energies on those! I know when I am sitting at home reading I read through the posts and think oh yeah good point, ha thats a great one, nicely said, ooh what a d*&# thats not right - I might need to comment on that one...!!

It seems like your posts are always the last of the thread because you make sooo much sense - surely noone could top it off!
My little boy was born 21 March, 2005

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eilis
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Post by eilis » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:04 pm

hmmm, Im maybe thinking that we may be getting somewhere :shock: after just reading some of the more recent pots from isas, especially the ABA is for you thread. baby steps!

this is what I wrote to isas via PM
isas,

I no longer have the time or energy to try and explain what I was trying to say. I did agree with what Manda said, which i posted as well.
Im just a little tired of debating such issues within the ABA when our biggest problems are outside the ABA.
Just thought Id let you know Im not running and hiding I just cant be bothered trying to articulate what I want to say. It prob wont come out right and then get picked to bits.
Liz

and this is what i got back...
That's ok lizzy. I know how you feel. I'm sorry if I came across as big bad isas but I am so fed up with a certain group skimming over my posts till they can find something they can twist into implying I'm saying something else. (I'm not saying you did that intentionally). I was trying to think of a way to change the wording but I can't really think of anything better.
I really could have written back as I was peeved about the 'certain group skimming her posts!' :? Im sorry I thought thats what she did :x :?
I was just happy that I didnt get abused and that she said sorry.[/quote]
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance” Socrates
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Nell
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Post by Nell » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:16 pm

Oooh certain groups - hmm I wonder if I could take a guess.....we go way back me and isas!!!! Feel a bit funny about this, but thought it was interesting that isas felt it necessary to PM to let me know of what "BF advocacy" she does. She felt hurt that people were accusing her of not doing enough when she does:
1. I found the aba website and started researching some info for my friend in the UK who was about to have a baby and sent her the link etc.

2. When in the UK I printed off a load of stuff for another friend who has debilitating depression. She is the one who c/cd her newborn.

3. I did two submissions to the parliamentary enquiry.

4. I sent a load of links to my sister in the US because she was struggling with breast refusal.

5. I periodically attempt to pull people up when they start criticising others on the aba forum.

6. This is an example of a pm I sent to someone who posted on the forum about something that was said to her friend on the helpline.

I didn't want to post on the thread because some people tend to get to defensive

That's really bad about what was said to your friend when she rang the helpline. I think you should encourage her to report it. Unless these things are reported they don't know/acknowledge there is a problem. I'm sure their is a link somewhere where you can complain.

I really don't think they are all as bad as that dreadfull counsellor - it's just the negative militant image they have and they don't really do enough to convince people otherwise iykwim.
I have never been to a group but I think generally they are really mild and non-judgmental from what I gather. It might be worth giving it a go anyway, just to see. They really are a great resource for b/f info.
Quite interesting. At first I thought - oh thats nothing what the heck..?? But then I thought well I guess that is her way and what she feels comfortable with. But I also followed it up with something like - thanks fo rletting me know, I think that anything anyone does is fantastic. Its just a bit hard when I see you popping up all over the place on the forum when there is something you don't agree with or "controversial" but rarely do you take the time to post generally supportive, normal posts. So it is a bit hard to guage whether you really are a breastfeeding supporter or not. I'd love to know some more about you that is not just that you often don't agree with me! She then wrote back saying something quite rude!! I think our relationship is over :cry:
My little boy was born 21 March, 2005

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