Tricky thread

for threads that need to be deleted from the advocacy area in the future (time to be advised)
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eilis
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Post by eilis » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:15 pm

:( :( I just had a quick catch up and read some of those threads (milly ones) and now Im just sooooo sad.

Now I want to bang my head on the keyboard! At least its only one persons opinion :?
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance” Socrates
Mama to 4

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:18 am

I haven't read the thread, noticed the 'pot striiring' comments / thoughts. If several people are thinking it, it is a good chance it is a possibility - your intuition that it is all too 'neat'.

I have seen this on other forums, it is known as 'trolling'! I've seen people go on a bf forum 'to decide' if they will bf or not, then explain why not, sit back and watch the show. I've seen people get on AP forums and explain why leaving your baby to cry is actually the responsible thing to do, (Actually, I've even seen that here!) watch everyone go nuts with evidence-based research and experrience, only fir the mods to cotton on and pull the pin on the person. Meanwhile we were all going "WTF? Is this person out of their gourd?" Yes, they were, never to be heard from again. It is a bit trickier to spot them on a yahpp group as you can't see how many posts they've made already..

Really, if people are going to decide not to bf due to seeing a few stories of mastitis and lack of support, they weren't planning on bf anyway, and were looking for excuses / rationalisations.

How many people say, ugh, I don't want the mess of nappies, so I'm not going to have any children??

I KNEW of the possible bf problems, so I worked damn hard to educate and prepare myself to avoid as many as possible, or know how to effectively manage what did come up. Not be a wuss-bag and avoid the whole issue by using abm.

Having a positive bf stories section is going to cause the 'how dare you' crowd to get het-up, but ANY remark, even the mere presence of bf mothers will do that! (As if tickers are a slap in the face! Just STOP going to the forum if you don't like the place! Don't try and change it to suit yourself!)

They do pop up though, "Why I love bf" could simply be started every month, some variation, pretty easy to do, and good as it is distributed all over the forum categories. A simple way of doing it, easier than a section by itself - spread the joy around.

"Why I love bf a newborn"
"Why I love bf a crawling baby"
"Why I love bf a toddler"
"Why I love bf when baby is sick/ has a fall"
"Why I love bf while travelling"
"Why I love bf during the night" etc...Make a list, check it twice, trot them out on a monthly basis!

Gotta remember the forum is ALSO for supporting breastfeeding mothers, that is all of us, not just protecting those that couldn't / didn't / won't/ suffered the premature loss of their bf relationship, as sad as that is, while we all hide in here stewing and wishing we could celebrate bf out there!

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jennylee
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Post by jennylee » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:49 am

Hi all,

Firstly, I agree with PP, I don't think Milly worth worrying about. Stirring possibly? Or very narrow minded so not going to change her mind no matter what you say. If she is afraid of setting herself up for heart break... what can you say?? She is not going to experience much in life is she... So just leave it.

Re the new section on postive b/f stories. We have talked about this as mods before. Pros and cons. Some of the cons you have already mentioned. I also am wary of setting up a 'competition' I have b/f for x months, etc etc.. I know I know can go the other way and is probably competition now on my baby sleeps less than yours, my life is tougher then yours etc etc ;) So not a reason on its own. And what is a postive b/f story to one person is not for another, eg getting to 1 mth is great for one person, but a 'failure' in anothers eyes... So some may be put off posting if their postive is not as postive as someone elses...

Yes It all depends upon how it is handled.. yes I can see benefits..

I have put it in too hard basket up till now...

I will give it a trial run, if is starts to cause trouble, will pull it then..

I gotta go to bed now.. so please someone remind me if I forget - will aim to get it up by end of the week.

cheers

Jenny
Australian Breastfeeding Association
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:55 am

Got another idea for Ya!

I was actually thinking of this about a year ago, but shelved it.

In the EC forums, we do something called an "EC update" - anyone can do them at any time, I never got around to it for ages!! But found them really helpful to do, and they are great to read - you really get great tips from others' updates. It has positives and negatives as possible to come up - so there is often a balance, and so it does not come across as a competition type of thing - though it is still good to encourage people to post them so that they DO share their problems as others can help them, having experienced the same or similar things in their EC journey. People post all sorts of interesting observations and links to things as well - they spark all sorts of sharing.

I was just reading one this morning and thought, "Wow, that's a good idea I hadn't thought of, wow, THAT'S an approach I need to adopt atm" (and it was from someone with a tot several months younger than Maven - I am still learning, as the ideas are applicable to parenting as well as EC)

People tend to talk through their internal mental dialogue, which is really helpful and illuminating. Some of mine are listed here on my website. So, I then thought - hmm, perhaps we can modify something like this to do on the forum?

It could go in as a sticky that people can access the QU from, then start their own thread saying "Charndra and Maven's breastfeeding update"; people could add subsequent 'updates' to their own thread, build a picture over time; SEE the progress of their bf relationship - I feel this could be really useful as well; lots of the updates get archived in folders on the EC forum, so someone can read of a person's entire EC experience from birth to 'gradhood' as we call it.

Here is the list of QU we use:
* Age of EC tot:

* We started at...

* Generally speaking we are doing...

* How do you know your baby has to go / when do you offer baby a wee?
(optional:)
timing:
signs:
signals:
intuition:

* Is there a difference for poos and pees? What cues do you use?

* Which positions/receptacles do you use?

* Nappies, training pants or other?

* What are you doing away from home?

* What are you doing at night?

* Who takes baby to the toilet?

* Catches and Misses - how many and what times are especially
interesting?

* Other insights:

* What's your next EC goal? (& how did you go with your last goal?)

* A tip for this age/stage?

* A burning question?
With some editing, I wonder if this has the potential to be quite useful - cover things like:
"What barriers / hurdles are you experiencing at the moment / What are you trying to overcome / manage them?"

"What is going well / What are you really enjoying"

"How do you know when your baby needs to feed?"

"Something about the need for supplementary feeding?"

"Something about solids / weaning?"

"Something about support from others / looking after self?"

"What do you do when out of the home?"
etc... purely rambled off the top of my head! 7- 10 would be enough! Open qu - the counsellors would be able to draft appropriate questions for that...
Qu's about contentious issues could be left out?? Such things will still come up, but rather than asking for whinges.. it is more focussed on celebrating where you are at...

If such a 'celebrating bf' section is going to be trialled, this is one sort of way it could be managed, prompting for the GOOD STUFF and then the challenges, but always with a "what are you planning on doing about it?" direction (even if the person is stumped, just that AIM is really helpful, imo)

I remember one of the principals I worked with (the BEST one) would say
"If my door is open, you can come in. If you have a problem, bring a few possible solutions you are considering that we can talk over"

What a fantastic approach that was. Gets people in the right mind-set of moving forwards rather than stewing and grwing problems into unsolvable nightmares (like the "I get the least sleep" type of spiral... He moved to another school the following year; I was very disappointed, as was all the staff.

charndra

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jennylee
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Post by jennylee » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 pm

Thanks Charndra, good idea.. got me thinking more.
Perhaps I could change the title of the Introductions forum to Introductions and Updates. People could then introduce themselves and give updates as they go all in the one spot... We could provide a template like you suggest for them to complete when they introduce themselves and then can update as they go. Of course for those already here, they can just jump in with the update or whatever they feel appropriate.

That way all out of the general discussion type threads, so should be obvious it is a section for people to tell *their* story, good bad or otherwise. And easy for people to go look in there to catch up..

Will need to heavily remind everyone about forum safety etc...

what do you all think??
Australian Breastfeeding Association
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au

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breastfeedingisnormal
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Post by breastfeedingisnormal » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:54 am

Perhaps someone might post a reply about WHY so many women persevere through such difficulties ... because there are known health risks associated with using infant formula. MAny people will tell you they formula fed their babies and they are 'just fine'. However formula feeding is rarely recognised as the cause of the gastro that puts the baby in hospital, the nagging ear infection you can't get rid of, the third course of antibiotics this year ... the obesity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure in adulthood. Send her to this site
http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-hea ... 9523_0.pdf and this one http://www.ahcpr.gov/downloads/pub/evid ... brfout.pdf

there's about 600 pages of why breastfeeding is important.
Cheers
Nina
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Cert IV BE (Community & Counselling)
Cert IV TAA
PhD
Mum 2 J18 N15 E13

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:19 am

Perhaps I could change the title of the Introductions forum to Introductions and Updates. People could then introduce themselves and give updates as they go all in the one spot... We could provide a template like you suggest for them to complete when they introduce themselves and then can update as they go. Of course for those already here, they can just jump in with the update or whatever they feel appropriate.

That way all out of the general discussion type threads, so should be obvious it is a section for people to tell *their* story, good bad or otherwise. And easy for people to go look in there to catch up..
I think that's a great idea - as it is also right there for new people to read, and also encourages the rest of us to wade in and say hello to newbies - I was trying to reply to a few a week, but forget to.

I like now how it'd be out of the general discussion type threads for those reasons you said, as a lot of problems and issues are covered in those areas, so keeping it with intros is a good idea - see how it goes anyway!

Charndra

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charndra1
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Post by charndra1 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:25 am

oh, yeah, once a template of suggested / possible update questions is generated, we could 'test' a few in here to work out 'bugs' in them. The qu I did above are the review our local group made on the original update qu - for some we found a bit useless or repetitive. Still, they simply represent a guide for people to use - however as a teacher I found such a guide very helpful for kids in writing something worthwhile and exploring their ideas rather than whatever happened to come up.

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Nell
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Post by Nell » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:35 am

I like this idea! :-D
My little boy was born 21 March, 2005

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ella
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Post by ella » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:21 am

I like the idea too.

I understand the concern in regards to the positive Bf section & I can see how it could be misinterpreted...I just find it SUCH a shame that it's this way...what a sad situation that we're unable to openly & proudly celebrate our experiences without fear of them being taken the wrong way :cry:

I look forward to the day when Bf isn't such a struggle & celebrating positive Bf experiences isn't viewed as judgement of others...
R 28/9/06 A 29/12/09

"The time in your arms, at your breast and in your bed is such a relatively short time, but your message of love and availability will last a lifetime"
Dr William Sears

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~~*Buddha's mumma~~*
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Post by ~~*Buddha's mumma~~* » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:18 pm

I love sharing my possitive breast feeding stories.
I have had some really terrible issues but also many very beautiful times as well & I think if we could share the up side to show other mum's that dispite the bad the great heavily out weigh them & that they dont have to last forever.
but also from personal experience some possitive stories may set mum's up for the bad.
A friend of mine had her bub yesterday & when I was talking to her she was saying that she doesn't think she will be able to feed bub because he was only an hour old when she feed & he sucked constantly for 40 min's.
When I told her that was great she reminded me that my bub only feed's for short periods. I am headding down to see her tomorrow & will be giving her the # for ABA, her local group & this forum.
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