Scalding and lipase issues

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Scalding and lipase issues

Postby Esther » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Hello,

There's been a request for a sticky about EBM that smells "off", tastes metallic or soapy and what you can do in this situation.

Please feel free to add your suggestions and stories here :D
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Postby Penguin » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:52 pm

Glad to see this sticky! If only it had been here three months ago... :)

My long story short - bub would drink fresh (fridge) EBM but not frozen. My frozen and defrosted milk tasted metallic (not soapy). After many tests and trials we have discovered that she will drink it if I scald it before freezing (or fresh).

I really struggled to find information about metallic milk.
Here's my story:
25 aug viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73849
1 sept viewtopic.php?f=29&t=74094
4 sept viewtopic.php?f=29&t=74163
8 sept viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74313

I also found this thread helpful (once I found it). http://forums.llli.org/showthread.php?2 ... ive-Lipase It's not proper research or information, but it gives stories about what worked for others. To my knowledge ABA does not have any resources on scalding milk.

Happy to chat with anyone about what we do. I'll be watching this thread with interest as I'd like to hear about what does/ doesn't work for others.
Last edited by Penguin on Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eclectus » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:24 pm

I discovered with my first bub that I had a lipase issue. I was exclusively expressing and one night I went to feed him his bottle and it smelt HORRIBLE! I was half way through the bottle which he was drinking with no issues but I didn't want to feed him 'off' milk so discarded that bottle and fed him formula instead, not the end of the world as my supply wasn't enough and he was getting some formula anyway.

What I couldn't understand was that the milk was only 24 hrs old so shouldnt have turned bad, I even thought maybe my fridge had broken and wasn't keeping it cool!

After a lot of research I found that I probably had a lipase issue, my higher amount of lipase in my EBM was breaking/digesting the proteins down, and although it smelt horrible it was ok to drink. I still dont know how DS could stomach it!

Unfortunately I had a large freezer stash which I was saving for the day I would stop EEing, although the EBM was frozen as soon as it was expressed the lipase continued to break down the EBM while it was frozen. Consequently I wasted a lot of milk :-(

This time around I'm freezing EBM after I scald it, the scalding process deactivated the enzymes responsible. I would love to know what it does to the good bits in the EBM though. There doesn't seem to be any research on that.

I have read that ingesting large amounts of flax seed can cause lipase issues. I don't think I have any flax seed in my diet though.
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Postby silverhales » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:12 am

another question :D

I can only express about 100mls each time. Am I able to express this, scald it, cool it and then a few hours later, express some more, scald that, cool it, and add it to the already cooled scaled milk??
Cheers
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Postby Penguin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:02 pm

silverhales wrote:another question :D

I can only express about 100mls each time. Am I able to express this, scald it, cool it and then a few hours later, express some more, scald that, cool it, and add it to the already cooled scaled milk??
Cheers



short answer, yes. Add same temp to same temp.

You might find that you can save it up and scald all in one go if that's easier. My DD will drink it if i've had several pumping sessions during the day, then scald all the milk together when i get home in the evening. For my milk it seems that 6 hrs or so isn't too long. Since there isn't much info on scalded milk, i think you'll just have to try and see if your bub drinks it. Hopefully it will work for you :)
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Postby J1974 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:50 am

I'm very interested to read about this issue - I spent a good part of 2010 throwing out endless quantities of defrosted EBM that ds wouldn't drink (as did our poor daycare ladies). Hubby and I both noticed that defrosted milk didn't smell good - I don't recall it being soapy, but more metallic or even plasticky if that's possible - at any rate we didn't blame ds for not wanting to drink it! To be honest though neither of us were too fussed on the fresh/straight from the source stuff either but ds obviously was so we figured our tastes might be a bit irrelevant.

I can't remember whether he was better with fresh EBM - bottle refusal was always a big factor as well so it wasn't clear cut. We were also lucky in that by the time we were using frozen EBM he was big enough to be having some solids and extra catchup feeds on the days I wasn't working.

Bub no. 2 is due in a few weeks so I'll be coming straight back to read all those links if we have similar problems. In the meantime I'll just hope for the best and cross the bridge when we come to it :wink: I too would be interested to know what scalding does to all the "good" things in EBM, in weighing up whether it's something that I think would be worthwhile.
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Postby Esther » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:10 pm

I guess scalding does destroy some of the qualities of EBM, but it's probably still much better to give your bub that (if they will take it) than the alternative.

Good luck with your new bubba :-D
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Postby Penguin » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:38 pm

J1974 wrote:I'm very interested to read about this issue - I spent a good part of 2010 throwing out endless quantities of defrosted EBM that ds wouldn't drink (as did our poor daycare ladies). Hubby and I both noticed that defrosted milk didn't smell good - I don't recall it being soapy, but more metallic or even plasticky if that's possible - at any rate we didn't blame ds for not wanting to drink it! To be honest though neither of us were too fussed on the fresh/straight from the source stuff either but ds obviously was so we figured our tastes might be a bit irrelevant.

.


That is exactly how I described my defrosted milk, same thing about the fresh stuff too. I think that scalding might work for you.

I figure even if all the nutrients are destroyed, then that's no more than for formula (becuase it is heated too when it's manufactured) and it will still be more easily digested.

Good luck, I hope that scalding fixes your issues.
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Postby J1974 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:29 pm

Thanks ladies :D
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Postby Penguin » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:00 pm

Hmmmm, not sure if it is a lipase issue for me. It seems to be freezing which is the issue. No idea what to do about it or if I even need to be cscalding at all. none of it makes sense?
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Postby Penguin » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:16 pm

Here are some links to sites of varying reliability about funny smelling milk/ lipase/ scalding.

detailed info about scalding http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/lipa ... dmilk.html
http://www.leron-line.com/updates/funny_milk.htm
this one talks abotut funny smelling frozen milk, but offeres no advice about how to get baby to take it http://www.motherandchildhealth.com/Bre ... tmilk.html
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Postby Penguin » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:13 pm

Hmm???

I though DD was over her gastro but yesterday daycare rang to say she had had diarhoea, so DH picked her up. She stayed home with DH today. Usually I always scald my EBM. She has Tuesday's milk on Wednesday (scalded and fridge) and Wednesday's milk gets scalded then into the freezer for next Tuesday (with ABM bottles as needed since I can't pump enough for her).

Since she was going to be home with DH (and because I was too tired when I got home from work I didn't scald straight away. When I remember at 9pm I figured that it was probaly too late to scald, but in hindsight perhaps not?) Anyway I didn't scald it.

DH said she wouldn't drink any of it and that it was really soapy. (He didn't know before this that I hadn't scalded it, so I guess this is as close to a double blind trial that we're going to get)

The confusing part is that she used to drink several day old, non scalded EBM in the fridge. But now it's soapy? Maybe my milk now has more lipase that when she was a newborn???????

Back to religious scalding I guess. I probably should have done it last night, even if it was later.
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Postby J1974 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:18 pm

Well, here I am back again, with a lovely 10.5 week old DD now :D I haven't done a great deal of expressing, but sure enough the few times we've defrosted some EBM it has the same smell as last time - I'd still call it plasticky. Definitely not pleasant anyway. I've scalded 2 batches before freezing, and DH could tell the difference straight away once it was defrosted - no yucky smell.

It's less straightforward to figure out what DD thinks about it because she's pretty rubbish with a bottle and has drunk probably 40ml of EBM in total ever, but the most recent attempt was 30ml of the scalded milk in one go. I did get the impression she was grimacing as if she didn't like the taste the times we've tried unscalded milk, but it's been hard to tell amongst the gagging and spluttering and so on that has resulted from putting anything other than a nipple in her mouth.

So for now I'll be scalding I think (I even went and bought a cute little milk saucepan, the problem is I really can't be bothered expressing when I don't really need to). If/when she's mastered the bottle thing a bit better I'll try some unscalded milk again in the hope that she might drink it just in case!
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Postby J1974 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:26 pm

Penguin I meant to ask, have you found there's a timeframe that you need to get the scalding done within? I read through a thread on the LLL forum (I think from one of your links above) and the various women posting had found different windows of opportunity to scald before their milk started to get the funny smell. For some it was only a few hours, and I think some went for 24 hours or more. I can't actually remember what I've done so far, my brain cells aren't at their finest right now, but that will be relevant for me when I go back to work as I do pretty long days. Depending what times I actually express it will be up to 8 hours or so before I can do any scalding.
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Postby Penguin » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:18 pm

J1974 - congratulations on your bubba!

That sounds like exactly what happened with us. As soon as we defrosted the first scalded batch, DH said straight away that the smell was different. Woo hoo - sounds like you've fixed your problem!

As far as the time goes, I seen to be able to wait a while. I had a huge stress about it since I thought that I would need to scald at work but I don't have the facilities to scald there, let alone the time.

I pump at 11 and and 1pm and I scald when I get home - usually about 6ish. Sometimes I don't have time to scald until after dinner - about 8ish and things have been ok. The EBM I left a few weeks ago was definately bad when DH went to give DD her bottle at her morning nap the next day.

When I was looking at info on the web I got the feeling that it needed to be scalded immediately, but it certainly lasts many hours for me.


PS - I love those little milk saucepans but I've been restrained and haven't been to buy one. You may have pbroken my resolve :)
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