formula sample giveaways

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MamaMagoO?
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by MamaMagoO? » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:08 pm

I read this blog post recently and thought I might add it to the conversation if that's ok mods and Andy. It doesn't address the OP and I'm already feeling bad that this thread has gone so far OT but it does address many of the broader issues that we have been discussing here in a really well written and compassionate way. In the section about more support for formula feeders the author pretty much say sy what I've been trying to say only much more eloquently...

http://tigermama.org/2014/06/21/are-bre ... ng-unfair/
Little Magoo 07/08. Breastfed for 3yrs3mths.
Miss Magoo 10/11. Breastfed for 4yrs3mths.

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by MamaMagoO? » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:17 pm

Penguin wrote:
PellyintheWilderness wrote:If, as has been stated earlier (I think it was AndyPandy) close to half of ABA mums use formula
But are we talking here about a handful of occasions for the most part? In the same way that someone who expressed milk from bub to have every now and again may not have an understanding of what it's like to exclusively express, I don't think that someone who has comped for a while or used the odd formula bottle is necessarlily well placed to be discussing formula use generally. ABA training only covers a small amount of formula info. The emotional/ reputation aspect is important too.
^ And this is what I meant when I say I feel limited in the support I can give ff mums because I know SFA about formula. That said its about meeting mothers where they are at. Sure I don't actually know how to make up a bottle or choose a tin of formula but I can still provide mother-to-mother support to an ff mother. Just like I could for the mother with breast implants that called me last week when I've never had them either. But I can understand why an Ff mum might prefer support from another ff mum.
Little Magoo 07/08. Breastfed for 3yrs3mths.
Miss Magoo 10/11. Breastfed for 4yrs3mths.

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Penguin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:20 pm

Andypandy wrote:
Penguin wrote:. ABA training only covers a small amount of formula info. The emotional/ reputation aspect is important too.
I think counsellors are quite good at the emotional side of things because of empathy.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that a possible fault of formula advocacy groups is that they deal with the grief and emotional aspects by risk denial.
Eg. "Don't worry, formula is as good as breast milk" - this may provide reassurance that they are a good mum and that their baby will be fine (and of course they are a good mum) but it does not acknowledge that they have lost something valuable to them.

When actually sometimes mums need to hear:
"It sounds like you are sad that breastfeeding did not work out" "you worked so hard, it is OK to be sad about it not working out".

I guess what I am saying is, that a counsellor is trained to listen and provide empathy to mums. Sometimes, I may speak to a mum completely happy to switch to formula and she just wants to avoid mastitis etc. Other mums are quite sad and my skills require me to address that.

Back to your point about the necessary information to discuss formula types and situations. I agree, we do not have that info as counsellors and I am not sure we should. I think it is important to be able to talk about safe prep and hygiene and paced feeding practices but I think too broad a scope may reduce the quality of breastfeeding info we provide.

I definitely see a place for quality formula feeding info that is neutral. I think these grass roots organisations have that info but it is not published yet or presented in an easy format to find it.
When I said the "emotional/ reputation aspects" I meant that a FFing mother may be reluctant/ adverse to seeking advice from ABA, or may not see ABA as a safe place to discuss FF issues. I feel that it is and others do to, but if someone is feeling hurt, upset or emotional about breastfeeding/ switching to FF and may feel upset by all the 'breast is best'/ 'formula is poison'/ 'formula comps = infidelity'/ 'formula is not normal' messages. Even though many (but not all) of these messages not only don't come from ABA but are specifically in conflict with both the spirit and the letter of ABA's CoE and other documents, often members of the general public associate anything to do with breastfeeding or formula with ABA. What I meant by 'emotional/reputation aspects' is that if someone has an impression of ABA as being anti-formula judgy judgy breastfeeding nazis, then she will be very unlikely to come to ABA for advice or support.

I think what you said about an ABA BC being able to help work through emotional issues like what you mentioned is spot on.
DD1 May 2011
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by MamaMagoO? » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:27 pm

Sadly that is true Penguin. I remember a friend of mine who was struggling with breastfeeding but didn't want to call the helpline because she thought she'd be judged for supplementing... That was back when my DS was still a newborn so I wasn't as entrenched with aba as I am now so unfortunately wasn't really able to counter that belief as much as I suspected she was wrong from what contact I had had. I am sure there are many other mothers who feel the same as her too.
Little Magoo 07/08. Breastfed for 3yrs3mths.
Miss Magoo 10/11. Breastfed for 4yrs3mths.

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Andypandy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:31 pm

I agree. I think people who are feeling uneasy with FF'ing, may feel too scared/anxious to contact the ABA for all of the reasons you stated.

I don't know what the answer is. Some people view the presentation or risks of formula as meaning formula is poison. It is a very tricky line to walk and promote. We want people to know that breastfeeding is an important health measure but that message is almost impossible to convey without cries of "shaming, bullying and nazis".

It is hard to have a proper conversation.
DS1: May 09 Breastfed 2y7m
DS2: Oct 2012 Breastfed 2y1m I am pretending he is weaned
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Mummy woo! » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:06 pm

I agree with what you are saying about not knowing anything about ABM feeding MM - I have never used it either. I usually suggest mums talk with their MCHN about issues they have with FF, but I can tell them some things from general knowledge, like that they are all broadly the same. And some of the advice we are giving is the same whether it is EBM or ABM in the bottle (pacing feeds, risks of nipple confusion etc).

On the rare occasions I speak to a mum before she has tried the comp feed, I ask her permission to talk her through the issues with artificial feeding. Usually I have a sense of whether they are open to that before I ask, and I can't recall anyone ever saying 'no'. And we have always gone on to talk about how she can make things work for her.

I usually lead in with 'this is your decision and you have to do what you think is best for your baby, but I would like you to have all the info to help make your decision. Do you have a few minutes for me to talk you through some issues with your plan?' - that works well for ABM feeding, pumping and feeding EBM, dummy use, controlled crying, spacing feeds etc. It also helps to keep me focussed on the breastfeeding issues, not any other views about parenting.
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Karleen » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:13 pm

ABA has realised that ABA counsellors needed info about how to talk about formula….there have been education materials distributed and every counsellor should be conversant with the information on formula feeding contained within the NHMRC Infant Feeding Guidelines for Health Workers and that's a pretty good base. And it's not that complicated.
Karleen

Mummy woo! wrote:I agree with what you are saying about not knowing anything about ABM feeding MM - I have never used it either. I usually suggest mums talk with their MCHN about issues they have with FF, but I can tell them some things from general knowledge, like that they are all broadly the same. And some of the advice we are giving is the same whether it is EBM or ABM in the bottle (pacing feeds, risks of nipple confusion etc).

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Parla. » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:18 pm

Karleen wrote:ABA has realised that ABA counsellors needed info about how to talk about formula….there have been education materials distributed and every counsellor should be conversant with the information on formula feeding contained within the NHMRC Infant Feeding Guidelines for Health Workers and that's a pretty good base. And it's not that complicated.
Karleen
Yes! Thank you for mentioning this Karleen. I have a lot of experience with bottle feeding but not formula so I scheduled "mixed feeding" as a group discussion topic to increase my knowledge (by doing the prep for the discussion, and by hearing what others in the group have to say).
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Andypandy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:23 pm

Yes. I think most counsellors have checked out the DVD. We did it as regional continuing development. What it does not do is answer questions that Penguin talked about such as which brand is the best for constipation and how do you travel with formula. In my opinion, that is well out of the scope of ABA and would probably be better managed by a bottle feeding organisation.
DS1: May 09 Breastfed 2y7m
DS2: Oct 2012 Breastfed 2y1m I am pretending he is weaned
DD: Feb 2015

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Karleen » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:44 pm

Andypandy wrote:Yes. I think most counsellors have checked out the DVD. We did it as regional continuing development. What it does not do is answer questions that Penguin talked about such as which brand is the best for constipation and how do you travel with formula. In my opinion, that is well out of the scope of ABA and would probably be better managed by a bottle feeding organisation.
Talking about brands is unnecessary and unehlpful and constipation may be a medical issue that people need to discuss with their HCP...but there's other aspects that are basic. We know that babies can struggle with constipation when new food (including formula) is introduced. We know that overconcentration of formula can cause constipation....both these are things that can be discussed and the travel with formula issue is covered within the NHMRC guidelines (and not dissimilar that travel with EBM).
Karleen

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Karleen » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:45 pm

Andypandy wrote:Yes. I think most counsellors have checked out the DVD. We did it as regional continuing development. What it does not do is answer questions that Penguin talked about such as which brand is the best for constipation and how do you travel with formula. In my opinion, that is well out of the scope of ABA and would probably be better managed by a bottle feeding organisation.
Talking about brands is unnecessary and unehlpful and constipation may be a medical issue that people need to discuss with their HCP...but there's other aspects that are basic. We know that babies can struggle with constipation when new food (including formula) is introduced. We know that overconcentration of formula can cause constipation....both these are things that can be discussed and the travel with formula issue is covered within the NHMRC guidelines (and not dissimilar that travel with EBM).
Karleen

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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by MamaMagoO? » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:49 pm

I haven't seen the DVD :oops:
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Mummy woo! » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:03 pm

Karleen, I found the DVD didn't really answer the types of questions I seem to get, and I agree that the examples you and Penguin talked about are outside its scope.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be answering medical/ABM related questions, but those are the times I can see a mother thinking 'they don't want to help me because I'm ABM feeding', rather than 'they can't help me because of scope of practice etc'.
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Re: formula sample giveaways

Post by Karleen » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:06 pm

Mummy woo! wrote:Karleen, I found the DVD didn't really answer the types of questions I seem to get, and I agree that the examples you and Penguin talked about are outside its scope.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be answering medical/ABM related questions, but those are the times I can see a mother thinking 'they don't want to help me because I'm ABM feeding', rather than 'they can't help me because of scope of practice etc'.
The NHMRC guidelines definitely cover more than the DVD and that stuff is within our scope.
Karleen

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