Disappointed

A place to find out what you can do to help make breastfeeding easier by
making the world a little more 'breastfeeding friendly'

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JulieJ
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Post by JulieJ » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:51 pm

Can you post your letter here? Good on you for following it up. I share your concern. I think that any organization does need to receive a formal complaint to then begin a complaint resolution process (having worked in complaints management myself). You do have to follow the agreed process.

Is there anything that others can do to help.
Mum to Hannah 12.03 (bf 2yrs 3 mths), Lilly 03.06 (bf 2 yrs and 9 mths), Jet 05.09 and Angel baby Jack M/C 03.08

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mooki
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Post by mooki » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:53 pm

pseudo, was yours the last comment before it was removed?

pseudo
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Post by pseudo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 pm

JulieJ wrote:Can you post your letter here? Good on you for following it up. I share your concern. I think that any organization does need to receive a formal complaint to then begin a complaint resolution process (having worked in complaints management myself). You do have to follow the agreed process.

Is there anything that others can do to help.
I'm submitting my formal complaint tomorrow. I guess it would be helpful if those who could do, submit complaints also?
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fellare
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Post by fellare » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:00 pm

could you send me your letter? I'll adapt it and send in a complaint too.
Boobymonster weaned at 3.5yrs.
Ms Firestorm born august 2015
Whatever you perceive to believe, dream.... be free.... (eMDee)

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AbbeyCat
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Post by AbbeyCat » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:13 pm

I'm looking to put a formal complaint to the IBCLC together too. Hoping to get it out by the end of the week. Am just concerned that most of mine will be based off "she's using scare tactics to guilt new mums and undermine their confidence in their ability to breastfeed" rather than any real evidence. But, guess anything is better than nothing.

Will probably send her an email too. Am sure she'll ignore it, but at least she'll know there's genuine concern out there about her tactics. But, at $100 per month by potentially lots of guilt-tripped mums her care-factor will probably be minimal.
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Penguin
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Post by Penguin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:37 am

Here's my letter, feel free to adapt as you wish. I have drafted response 2 as well.

Dear *****,

I have been considering contacting you about this issue for a while. I have decided to do so now since this issue seems to have become a bit of a ‘hot topic’.

I would like to take this opportunity to let you know how much I appreciate your sensible, reasonable advice about baby care and feeding. I have often found your advice to be supportive of normal behaviour – for example, being close to one’s baby, breastfeeding well into toddlerhood, cosleeping and respecting one’s baby’s needs. I find your gentle advice supportive and I take comfort in your IBLCL qualification. Indeed, when I wanted to make some changes to my daughter’s sleeping arrangements, I turned to your Facebook page for advice as I knew that it would be a supportive, understanding environment where people would understand the needs, desires and philosophy of our family. (The sleep changes were ultimately successful, if you remember.)

It has been with concern, however, that I have noticed your promotion of your **cookies***. My concern is that the promotion of these biscuits (or unproven lactation cookies/ milk producing foods in general) is that it is likely to make a mother doubt her natural milk supply and ability to nourish her baby(ies).

I note the following from your ebook.
"Sadly though, there is a lot of misinformation around that undermines breast-feeding mothers"
I think that this statement is very true, and unfortunately an IBLCL promoting expensive biscuits which have not been proven to have any effect on supply is undermining to breastfeeding mothers. The idea that ***cookies*** are essential or even useful in maintaining a sufficient milk supply is undermining.
I am also concerned that when I spent time on the website proper (website link**) I didn’t see any mention of first-line supply advice. That is, before resorting to unproven galactogogues I feel it is more appropriate to offer advice about firstly if one’s supply is actually low (eg number of wet nappies) and then suggestions about how to increase supply with proven methods (eg skin on skin, more frequent feeding, checking attachment and that the breast is being drained properly). It was disappointing to see that in order to find this information from **website** I have to first give my email address and then download and open a separate document.

"Some mothers swear by herbal teas such as fenugreek or raspberry leaf and blessed thistle tablets to increase their milk supply. However, please consider that most herbal treatments have not been thoroughly researched, particularly in regard to breastfeeding. Being ‘natural’ doesn’t automatically guarantee safety and in some cases herbs have been linked to allergic reactions or fussiness in babies and adverse reactions in mothers."
There are a few points to make here. Firstly, you claim that “being ‘natural’ doesn’t automatically guarantee safety” but then you make the following claims about your biscuits.
"All natural and organic ingredients
No chemicals, GM foods or pesticides passing through your milk"
This is contradictory to what you claimed about the herbal treatments. This is also erroneous. “No chemicals” means no carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen or any other elements – this is obviously wrong.

I am unaware of any evidenced based reason why lactation cookies can increase supply. If you are aware of any peer reviewed studies which demonstrate that the ingredients of your *cookies* do increase supply then I would be appreciative if you could share them with me.

"Grab and go – because this time is too precious to spend worrying about your milk supply"
I find this statement very concerning. To me it implies that if a mother is concerned about her milk supply, all she needs to do is eat your biscuits and everything will be fixed. I would contest that “this time is too precious to be spent worrying about your milk supply”. Indeed, if a mother is concerned about her milk supply, then I feel that time spent investigating it is very well spent to increase her confidence and reassure her (if her supply is fine.) If her supply is not adequate, then time spent ‘worrying’ about her supply and finding solution is crucial to addressing the nutritional needs of the infant, overcoming the issues when generally possible, or if not such as in cases of IGT then to arrange an ongoing management plan to both feed the baby and maintain milk supply as much as possible. Without spending this time early weaning is a real possibility.

***, can I please remind you how much I appreciate your advice and philosophy when it comes to baby care and feeding. Indeed, when this issue surfaced I said that my reaction was to be ‘disappointed’. I wouldn’t have been disappointed if I didn’t hold you in such high esteem.

I am very interested to hear what you have to say about this issue.

Regards, Penguin
DD1 May 2011
Super baby Dec 2013
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AbbeyCat
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Post by AbbeyCat » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:47 am

Big thanks Penguin. :-D

Your letter is amazing.
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Penguin
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Post by Penguin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:48 am

Does anyone know what/ if we can do to get ABA involved? Eg can we somehow get ABA to issue a statement saying that these biscuits (or biscuits in general) aren't useful/ necessary in increasing/ maintaining supply? What would the process be for that to happen? Is it possible?
DD1 May 2011
Super baby Dec 2013
DD2 Feb 2015 Storked by Parla.
Proud storker: michansam's DS3, katsbi's DD3 and Gwen's mum's DS
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pseudo
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Post by pseudo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:24 am

Go to her public page and she has posted a link to a glowing review, saying, amongst other things:
Breastfeeding can be fantastic and wonderful for mother and child, but often there are some hurdles to jump. As a mum you just want to see that you are doing the best for your baby, you want to see your baby grow and be healthy. Many mothers worry about their milk supply and are keen to build it up by expressing and eating the right food. Famous lactation consultant brand-name decided to help these mums out and developed a delicious biscuit that doesn’t just taste great but will help your body create more breastmilk for your baby, the natural way. Let me introduce to you: brandname.

Now don’t worry about where to find the time to bake biscuits or source hard-to-get ingredients, brandname are sold ready-to-eat. There is no baking required and they even come conveniently packed in separate wrappers so you can take them along in your nappy bag or keep some next to your bed, it also means they stay fresh for longer. It doesn’t get any easier than this, no more excuses for picking an unhealthy snack!

It can be tricky to know what and what no to eat but Pinky has done the research for you. brandname are made using only natural and organic ingredients that are well known to aid breastfeeding mums, ingredients that will nourish your nervous system and your baby’s. They are full of whole grains, protein, B vitamins, minerals, iron and Omega 3 essential fatty acids and you are passing all these important nutrients on to your baby.

Although I can’t speak for the effect on my milk supply (baby is not born yet) I can say these are probably one of the best biscuits I have ever tried. You don’t just know that they are good for you, they actually taste wholesome and really yummy (and they are big)! brandname are available in Vanilla flavour and Orange & Cinnamon flavour and you can buy them per carton of 10 or subscribe and get multiple cartons delivered each month. To try first you can request a free sample, just pay postage.

To find out more about brandname, to locate a stockist near you or to order online visit website removed.
Brandnames removed - mod team
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trilbs
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Post by trilbs » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:57 am

Penguin, you write so well :) Definately watching this topic with interest.
Was storked by 2peacefeed :-D
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pseudo
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Post by pseudo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:38 am

mooki wrote:pseudo, was yours the last comment before it was removed?
I think it was Mooki. The annoying thing is that I've net her on lots of occasions and she knows me but still chose to ignore my PM.
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s squirrel
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Post by s squirrel » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Penguin, you write a damn good letter :-D
If you can't fly, then run,
if you can't run, then walk,
if you can't walk, then crawl,
but whatever you do you have to keep moving
forward.... – MLK

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tillygail
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Post by tillygail » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:14 pm

Does anyone know if there is an ingredient list or nutritional information available for this product? I looked on the website but couldn't find it anywhere. I'm pretty dubious about any biscuit claiming to be healthy and nutritious. You can put all the healthy ingredients you like in it but if they are as delicious as the testimonials claim I'd say it's pretty likely that contain a fair bit of sugar and fat.

I'm certainly not saying that mums shouldn't be allowed to have a treat every now and again (or even more often!) but marketing a biscuit as a healthy snack seems pretty disingenuous to me.
DD1 - April 2010 - breastfed for 32 months
DD2 - June 2013 - breastfeeding

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pseudo
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Post by pseudo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:36 pm

tillygail wrote:Does anyone know if there is an ingredient list or nutritional information available for this product? I looked on the website but couldn't find it anywhere. I'm pretty dubious about any biscuit claiming to be healthy and nutritious. You can put all the healthy ingredients you like in it but if they are as delicious as the testimonials claim I'd say it's pretty likely that contain a fair bit of sugar and fat.

I'm certainly not saying that mums shouldn't be allowed to have a treat every now and again (or even more often!) but marketing a biscuit as a healthy snack seems pretty disingenuous to me.
I requested that in the message I sent her but haven't heard back from her. It must be on the actual box. I went back to the baby shop today and they are expecting an order to arrive this week so I will go back and check.
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pseudo
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Post by pseudo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:39 pm

I wonder if anyone would mind asking her on her page to post the nutritional panel? I can't ask as she already knows I have great concerns about her selling them.
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