Relactating & total breast refusal journey - Advice want

An area to discuss relactation and adoptive breastfeeding.
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maren
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:07 am

Relactating & total breast refusal journey - Advice want

Post by maren » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:59 am

Hi,

I wanted to start my own thread where I can update my progress. I'd love to hear your tips & stories as well. Thanks.

I'm not 100% sure when I started relactating. I'm pretty sure it was Sat a week ago so that would make today Day 10.

I'm on medication & herbs since day 1 and I've been pumping as well. Probably since day 7 I've pumped more frequently (every 2-4 hours) but so far not over night.

I know night pumping is important but DD is teething and is up a few times a night and I'm afraid I won't get any sleep if I pump as well. But I kind of know I can't get around it so I'll try to pump tonight.

At the moment I can pump about 40ml every 2-3 hours. My right side has always been worse. Most of it comes from the left. I actually have to hand express the right cause let down is pretty much non existent and hand expressing works better.

The other issue is her total breast refusal. The last time she breastfed was about 2 weeks ago so not that long. I try her on the breast quite a few times a day but at the moment she can be happy & giggling and as soon as I get the boob out she switches to screaming. :(

I'm so annoyed we don't have a bath tub - only a double shower. I've read it sometimes works to have a bath with baby and try feeding then but I can't try that. Too bad cause she loves her baths and would probably be more relaxed then.
Last edited by maren on Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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coppertones
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Location: NSW

Post by coppertones » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:36 am

Sounds like a difficult journey for you! And it will be good to have a thread like this for others that may go through similar circumstances. Can you add how old your LO is.
Samuel Charley 16/02/09 A WHO baby now and still going (Im trying to wean now - i've had enough)
3 step daughters
S 19 years
J 14 years
E 12 years

maren
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:07 am

Post by maren » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:33 pm

coppertones - LO has just turned 6 months.

I tried DD on breast when she was due for a feed at about 11:30am and she let me put it in her mouth but "chewed" on it rather than sucked. It only lasted for a short time and then she got upset.

I should mention that she sucked really well for about 30 secs about 3 days ago so I know she can do it.

I tried expressing a bit into her mouth but that just got her more worked up.

I haven't given her her bottle feed so far (12:30 now) and she so far fairly happy so I'll wait till she gets really hungry and try breast first again.

I got a question for everyone:
I'm still pumping to get my supply up but I don't want to offer her empty boobs because that will just turn her off more. So in a situation like this (trying to give her boob/waiting until she is really hungry)...should I express anyway cause it's more important to get the supply up or should I just wait and then express if she hasn't breastfed?
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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coppertones
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Location: NSW

Post by coppertones » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:40 pm

There is a section in the forum called coping with breast refusal and a sticky that has a whole heap of helpful links - you should have a look on there. I had small case of breast refusal with DS - I think he was around 9 mths - I thought he might have been trying to self wean and this was really upsetting to me - but I learnt that bubs will not cut off the supply just like that when weaning - I also learnt to keep expressing to keep my own supply up. At that time DS was drinking water from a sippy cup so I would express and let im drink breast milk from the sippy cup. At one stage he got really annoyed because it had all gone from the cup so I offered him the breast and he took it. My refusal only lasted a few days, but other have lasted a bit longer.

Have a look at the section, it is really helpful and reassuring and if you have any more questions why not try the helpline - there are ladies there that have been through the same stuff and might be able to help with something we just haven't thought of. Good luck!
Samuel Charley 16/02/09 A WHO baby now and still going (Im trying to wean now - i've had enough)
3 step daughters
S 19 years
J 14 years
E 12 years

maren
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:07 am

Post by maren » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:03 pm

coppertones - Thanks for your tips. I've already been to the breast refusal section and read all the tips.

I think we've made small progress today.

Eventually she got so hungry I had to give in and bottle feed her EBM & formula but I used a slower flow teat I took it out a few times half way through the feed and replaced teat with breast and she sucked for about a minute before she noticed what I'd done.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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maren
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Post by maren » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:05 pm

I wanted to add a link to an article that I thought was really good.

http://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-refusal.aspx
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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maren
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Post by maren » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm

I managed to express 6 times today so far. Not too bad. Got 40 ml each time. At the moment I seem to be stuck at 40ml. Hope it'll go up soon. I'd like at least double that.

I even got out my SNS and tried it but no luck. And I also tried my nipple shields again but I'm so bad at using either of them. :(

I might send an email to the helpline. And I'm thinking about seeing my LC again (I've seen 4 different LC's already).
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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Dolly
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Post by Dolly » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:59 pm

congratulations.
If you think a bath might work have you thought about asking a good friend or relative if you could try in theirs?
DD1 L 03/04 BF
DD2 A 10/06 BF
DD3 O 10/09 EBM has CP

'It is survival and desire to be happy that drive mothers of disabled/ill children, not bravery or some strange need for martyrdom.'

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DrJeckle&Hyde
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Post by DrJeckle&Hyde » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:07 pm

well done :) thats a great :)

maren
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Post by maren » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:26 am

I don't think I'd feel relaxed enough at a friend's house and all my relatives live overseas. :(

I expressed once over night but only got 25ml which is unusual. Expressed a total of 8 times in 24 hours yesterday and I get about a quarter of what LO drinks in EBM now.

Expressed this morning already and got 70ml so that's great.
Tried switching teat for breast again but she didn't fall for it this time.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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mummysairsair
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Post by mummysairsair » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:43 pm

maren, good on your for persisting! It sounds like a really stressful time, but hopefully you are doing what you can to stay calm and take each day (and each feed) as it comes. The MOBI website is brilliant for getting tips on increasing your supply and feeling less alone in your struggles. There is a great article there about "embracing your unique BF relationship" which I found really helped to keep me focused on what I was hoping to achieve short and long term.

I know it's really hard not to get hung up on how many mL's you are producing, but I found it really helped to try and relax and focus on "any BM is better than none" :)

Have you considered/tried an SNS? I found that really helped in getting DD onto the breast because even if I didn't have much milk, she was still getting enough to keep her happy through the tube, and was in turn stimulating my supply.

I also didn't have a bath in my house when trying to get DD on the breast, so we showered together where possible. It wasn't a situation where offering the breast was possible, but did increase skin to skin contact which can help get the hormones going to help with supply. I also had lovely naked cuddles after a shower in her rocking chair just massaging her legs and back with her head conveniently :wink: resting on my breast encouraged her to latch on a few times too!

Have you had any success in getting her to feed while she is asleep? I used to let her fall asleep on the bottle or with cuddles, then once she was really dopey, try to slip the breast in.. sometimes she woke up unimpressed, sometimes she was in too deep asleep to latch on, but sometimes it worked well!

In terms of trying to increase your supply.. are you double pumping with a hospital grade pump? Have you tried "power pumping" where you pump on and off every 10min or so for an hour or more? Have you read about or tried the "BM bootcamp" on the MOBI website?

What a journey you are on right now.. your LO is very blessed to have a mummy committed to giving her everything she can. Hope things start to settle and become easier soon xx
Patience.. It's what parents have when there are witnesses ;)

maren
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Post by maren » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:43 pm

mummysairsair - Thanks for your reply.
I have an SNS which I've used about 3 times in total. It's not working very well for us cause LO has to be attached well to suck the milk out and she's not even doing that right now. Plus she pulls on the tubes.

I'll try the showers with her. That's a great idea.
I've read about the Relactation Boot Camp plan and I'll try power pumping tomorrow when my older LO is at childcare.

I pretty much know I can get my supply up but attaching her will be the hard part.

I do have a great double pump (Medela in style).

Have to go and fit in another pumping session before I pick LO up from Kinder.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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maren
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Post by maren » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:22 am

I expressed heaps yesterday and today my older one is at childcare so I'm aiming for even more sessions and maybe a shower with her.

This morning I got 90ml - a new record.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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Dolly
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Post by Dolly » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:14 am

maren wrote:I expressed heaps yesterday and today my older one is at childcare so I'm aiming for even more sessions and maybe a shower with her.

This morning I got 90ml - a new record.
:smt038
I expressed from O's birth and my supply kept increasing until she was 4 months.
It will happen with persistence. :D
DD1 L 03/04 BF
DD2 A 10/06 BF
DD3 O 10/09 EBM has CP

'It is survival and desire to be happy that drive mothers of disabled/ill children, not bravery or some strange need for martyrdom.'

maren
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:07 am

Post by maren » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:17 am

mum23dd - I hope so. When I was still feeding I used to get about 100ml and during the first few weeks after birth there were times when I got 200ml from one side. I'd like to get back there.

Anyway, I've been trying to use my time wisely and did a power pumping session from 10-11am with 3 sessions of 20min, 20 min & 10 min pumping and 10 min breaks in between. Didn't get very much out (about 30 ml) but it was only an hour after I pumped the last time (9am).

I really need to figure out how to get LO back on the breast though.
Tried skin to skin in bed this morning but she just turns away if I get boob too close. :(

If she keeps refusing to attach or suck properly then how can she notice that I've got more milk now.

And I'm a little afraid that the longer we leave it the less likely she is to attach eventually.
Lucia (half BF/half formula)
Alexis (attachment problems/ expressed BM & formula)
Jesse (FULLY BREASTFED!!!!!)

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